norwich36 | Escapade report: part one

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Escapade report: part one

Con report (part 1 of 2, because I am WORDY)

I wrote most of this offline while waiting for my shuttle--offline because the wireless signal in the hotel sucked monkey balls.

This was my second year at Escapade. I never ended up writing a con report last year, because despite the fact that I got to meet some cool people from my f-list (waves at

anoel) and make some new friends (waves at

rsadelle) last year, overall I had found it an alienating experience. I am really introverted, and found it quite difficult to connect with people, and although I went to a couple of the Harry Potter panels and found them interesting, overall I wasn't really interested in the topics being discussed, and I had pretty much decided not to go again.

But then

slinkling, who I have adored from afar for quite a while now, decided to go, and so I went. And I'm very happy to have gone, not simply for the chance to meet and hang out with her and

clari_clyde (though that was definitely the highlight of the con for me), but also because this year I found the panels very, very interesting.

Amazingly, my connecting flight out of San Francisco was not delayed (this is the first time I've had an on-time connection out of SFO in the last 6 or 7 times I've flown through there) and I arrived at Burbank at 4. It took the shuttle two hours to get to Ventura (making me so so so glad not to live in Southern California--yikes, I hate traffic!) and managed to meet up with

clari_clyde for dinner. I was impressed by the new con hotel--it's right on the beach, and I arrived just in time for a spectacular sunset. Also, it is very close to central downtown Ventura, so we had lots of great choices for dinner (including a Peruvian/Thai restaurant, which I'm still sorry we didn't get to try), and we ended up eating in a very nice Indian place on Main Street. My observation, walking to main street, was that the town hall (at the top of the hill) in the moonlight looked like something that would get blown up in an episode of Buffy.

slinkling got in around 11 p.m. (which was 2 a.m. her time, poor thing) and we chatted for a while until we both collapsed from exhaustion.

Friday morning panels:

Fannish history

slinkling and I had breakfast downtown with

kassrachel (who I was very excited to meet in person--and it turned out we had RL friends in common, which was fun) so they could brainstorm for their heroism panel, and then we were off to different panels. The first one I went to was "Wayback machine," which was listed as a discussion of debates from former Escapades, but turned into an absolutely fascinating discussion of fandom history in general, and what that history should look like. We all agreed there wasn't one fandom history--not even one media fandom history--which is why people were excited by the concept of using wikis for history, since it gave individual fans the opportunities to tell their own histories as they experienced it. An interesting point that got made was that the history of different conflicts is a central part of fannish history, and there was an attempt made to chart some of the fannish conflicts that predated fandom wank.

kassrachel has much more detailed panel notes on this in her con report here.

Costs of heroism
The next panel I went to was

slinkling and

kassrachel's panel on the costs of heroism. I just have to interject here that I was so impressed

slinkling volunteered to mod at her very first con, and not only was she great but she kept bringing up Smallville examples into the conversation, and that made me blissfully happy. We had a very good discussion about who gets to be defined as a hero. Someone ( I wasn't taking notes or anything so I don't remember clearly who) raised some very interesting questions early on, like whether you get to be defined as a hero when you are on the losing side, or if you a firm believer in a false ideology, and I'm afraid those questions occupied me so much I didn't keep very good track of the conversation as a whole. One of the prominent themes that got discussed, though, was the shift from isolated heroes to heroes in community (like Buffy), and whether this represented a gender shift, a shift toward viewing audiences wanting to see our heroes as more flawed and human, a shift caused by long-running TV arcs, or something else.

slinkling has more complete notes on this panel here and

kassrachel has photos of the notes from the discussion itself here

I went to lunch with a large group of folks who seemed to be friends of

kassrachel's, though I'm afraid I didn't really get people's names. We wanted to buy sandwiches and eat on the very beautiful pier, but the sandwich place was closed so we ended up eating at the seafood restaurant on the pier. It was really lovely and the food was pretty good, though a bunch of people had to rush back for 1 p.m. panels.

slinkling,

clari_clyde and I lingered on the pier for a while, dodging crazy bicyclists and seagulls and reading all the informative plaques about the Channel Islands and basically just enjoying the beauty of the ocean.

Friday Afternoon panels

Harry Potter
Then I went to the "Whither Harry Potter Fandom" panel, where the consensus seemed to be that HP fandom is not going to wither up and die anytime in the near future, especially with the two (or possibly three) movies still to come out. We talked about things like all of the Epilogue fiction slash that has come out (I myself haven't read too much of this, but I do definitely love Albert Severus/Scorpius slash, and it really does have the best pairing name ever), and polled the room about the number of people who were in denial about the events of the epilogue ever happening. (It was about an even split, as I recall).

SGA: Crackfic

I went to this panel because I have read a bit in SGA, and am entertained by the crack, but although I found the discussion pretty entertaining, I didn't know about 90% of the stories being referenced (there are really stories where the whole cast turns into socks? Really? I mean, I had heard of the penguin-fic, and I've actually read the dolphin fic, but socks is a whole other level of crack.) I am pretty interested in the English schoolgirl AU that was mentioned, though, if anyone can hook me up with a link. And perhaps the NASCAR one too, since that was so highly recommended.

Supernatural
The last panel I went to Friday was one on Supernatural, asking what direction the show seems to be going in. Argh. This was the one panel of the weekend that really drove me insane. I didn't go to any of the many SPN panels at Escapade last year, because I wasn't into the fandom yet, and though I've been avidly watching and reading SPN fic and meta for the last six months or so, this was really my first formal SPN fannish experience, and...wow. Let's just say that certain of my friends who have in the past tried to persuade me not to defect to SPN fandom because in their perception it is full of woman-hating would have had their perceptions confirmed by this panel.

Ok, to be fair it wasn't generalized woman hatred, it was specific Bela-hatred. And it's not like I've never had passionate hatred of specific female characters myself, in the past, and I know there's a big difference between hating one woman character and hating all the female characters on the show. It's just really hard to listen to when it's targeted to a character I really like, and everyone speaking up seemed not only to hate her but to actively want her to die. I think what upset me most was that the people who were loudest in the Bela-hate seemed to be assuming not just that they personally disliked the character but that all "real" SPN fans obviously wanted her dead. I did at one point say "not all of us hate Bela" but I got talked over, and really since I am so new in SPN and the consensus in the room seemed so strong I just ended up staring at the floor for most of the rest of the panel, seething.

I know that one small group of outspoken people doesn't represent all of SPN fandom--they may not even have represented the opinion of everyone in the room--but it still upset me. I spent a lot of time laying in bed Friday night wondering if the fact that I seem to gravitate to characters most other fans despise says something about my desire to have an oppositional position in fandom, or what.

Other than the eruption of Bela hate, and a lot of conversation about season 3 not being as good as other seasons, I can't remember a lot of themes from this panel--it had a very hands-off moderator, so the conversation kind of devolved into lots of side conversations about various things, including one about how awful it was that Smallville got renewed when Lex isn't coming back, and it was sure to suck now. At that point I almost decided not to go to the Smallville panel, since I feared it too would devolve into bashing certain female characters and complaining about season 8, but

clari_clyde and

slinkling persuaded me to go, anyway, and I ended up being glad I did. But that's in part two of the report.

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I've noticed (around the very corners of the bit of fandom that I read) quite a bit of Bela hate, which I find distressing. Like you, I really enjoy her character and the particular way that she's hated bugs me. Many female characters who own their sexuality and attractiveness seem to acquire a lot of hate.

To be fair, I think for a lot of people the Bela hate has to do with the fact that she shot Sam (which many will never forgive her for), stole money from Dean, stole the Colt, and in general often gets the better of the Winchesters. And of course there's always a lot of resistance to adding new characters to existing shows.

But the sheer level of vitriol some folks have for her does bug me. I personally love her character type--I like clever antagonists who have their own agendas.

Thanks for the report!!! (And also hugs)

The recs:

Celli's Fireball (http://fanfic101.com/sga_fireball.htm)
Thighholster's You Only Ever Lose One (http://thighholster.livejournal.com/1252.html?style=mine)
toftfroggy's fifties boarding school fic (http://toft-froggy.livejournal.com/318450.html?style=mine)

Thank you so much! I can't wait to read them.

OMG! That sockfic story is pretty damn hilarious, I have to say.

I've been trying really hard not to become totally alienated from SPN fandom, especially because I genuinely do have plenty of non-crazy SPN fans on my flist, but.

I don't know - I know there's plenty of crazy in lots of fandoms but it's easier (for me to shrug it off) with ones where I'm more peripheral. Like I know there's lots of nasty girl-hatred in SV but uh, that's why I've pretty much just got you and

mskatej friended to filter that out for me. :P (Oh and

romanyg, but I've had her friended since Buffy.)

Me losing, um, fandom glow with SPN is probably a combination of lots of factors - time (i.e. it's been a little while), HP and other things obsession, school madness, S3 not doing it for me as much, etc. - but I definitely do think that there are certain currents in that fandom that have made me wary of the masses. Or whatever.

In general though, I'm glad that I kind of think of fandom as my fandom, and there's a certain level of stability in my multifannish flist chosen more for general way of looking at things than any specific fannish object in common.

And now I sound like this is a confessional! Wow, procrastination.

Also, I really have to go to this sometime. Thanks for sharing!

You're very welcome. It's definitely a fun con--pretty small, so you can (potentially, if you're not pathologically shy like me) meet lots of folks. And there's a large HP presence in addition to an SPN presence.

Girl-hatred is definitely not confined to SPN fandom, that's for sure. Last year when I was collecting reviews for

eat_crow, the Smallville review community I mod, I used to obsessively read them all and just bash my head against the wall at all the Lana, Lois, and Chloe hate (usually from different groups--that is, each character has defenders and detractors, though Lana generally drew the most hate). So I hear what you're saying there. For the sake of my own blood pressure, I just stopped reading a lot of people's reviews, and my fandom experience improved enormously.

That's also when I put the statement in my userinfo that I defend everyone's right to hate whatever characters they love to hate, BUT I'm not to engage with people who are bashing characters--and not just woman characters. I really love *all* the characters on Smallville, though I of course have my favorites like everyone else.

But anyway...mainly the SPN folks on my f-list are actually pretty awesome. I have of course seen random female-character bashing when browsing friendsfriends, and heard it referred to in other places, but mostly I hang out in protected spaces, which is I guess part of the reason I was so taken aback.

I am sad, though, that just as I'm finally getting into SPN so many folks are bailing. (I am actually very reminded of season 4 Smallville, which was experienced by many fans as radically altering the direction of the show and introducing new characters that many disliked--but which also drew in a whole heap of new fans).

Yeah, the SV girl-hate is so rampant that I've even found it coming onto my journal and I'm not even *really* in the fandom.

And I don't really know if I'm bailing on SPN - I don't know much about anything except that I'm crazy about school right now - especially because, like you, my flist is for the most part a "protected space." In general of late, my fandom interaction has been of the, er, consuming variety rather than producing and I've been opting for escape. I guess, in a way, my heavy involvement in SPN fandom in the past maybe also made it seem more like "work" in a way, and that may have had something to do with me stepping back also. Because I've got so much work work going on. I don't know if that made any sense!

No, that makes perfect sense. But I've also been in a consuming rather than producing state lately--sometimes I think you just need to take a break, you know?

I really don't care for her on a lot of levels, spanning the completely shallow, to the fact that I can't care about a character who's so cavalier with the boys' lives. (shhh! Not a word!!), and even the producers seem to admit they made a mistake with the way they introduced her character. But yeesh--some SpN fans put the Lana-bashers to shame. Such acid! I think, maybe that fandom takes everything a little more to heart than SV fans do. Or maybe it's because I'm old and not quite so...um...enthusiastic? (again, shhh! i know i have my moments--it's not polite to call your elders on bullshit)

Hee! You know, I don't actually object to individual people hating Bela, because everybody has different character preferences. (If you posted a rant on Bela, I might or might not read it depending on how I was feeling that particular day, but I support your right to rant). I definitely understand folks who feel that Bela keeps putting the boys in danger and they can't stand that.

Me? I love a good antagonist. Of course, Lilah was pretty much my favorite character on Angel, so, you know, beautiful evil characters with their own agendas are imprinted in my genes or something. And you know how much I love ~~the antiChrist~~ Lionel.

The thing about Kripke apologizing for Bela, though? That actually drives me even battier than fannish objections. Grow a pair, dude. Fans ALWAYS will find something to complain about in the most perfect show--that's the nature of fandom. We're passionate and opinionated--that's why we're fans. That doesn't mean you should listen to all of our ranting. The impression that the SPN producers got rid of Ellen and Jo because fans didn't like *them*, and now they might be kowtowing to fannish opinions on Bela, does not lead me to respect their decisions. Because a small group of vocal slashfen does NOT equal the opinions of all of fandom. Much as I've often disagreed with the direction that AlMiles took SV, I've always admired the fact that they stuck to their vision of the show and didn't bend to the waves of online opinion.

Ahem. Apparently I'm a little ranty on that subject--sorry about that! On a less ranty note: your icon is entirely made of win.

Edited 2008-03-12 04:44 (UTC)

Is cute, yes? Taliosi_X made it. *snuggles it*

You know, looking at a series through your own personal rosy lenses makes it weird when you take them off and look around. I thought people loved Jo and Ellen, but I guess it was because I did. And I thought folks were coming around to Ruby, but again, I guess I thought so because I was--let me tell you, folks seemed mighty perturbed with her that last ep and I don't get that--it was perfectly in character for her and she hasn't yet shown me she's an enemy...not like some...*glares at Bella*

Of course, Lilah was pretty much my favorite character on Angel

well, hell yeah--she was cool, and calculating and vicious and gorgeous and so smart, perverted, hot and smart and hot and...still, she had her soft loving side. Sort of, kind of, in a way. *mourns Lilah and my show in general*

I frankly can't imagine people NOT loving Jo and Ellen--I love them to pieces--but I remember quite a lot of complaints about them early last season. (There's enough SV/SPN overlap that when collecting SV reviews I always came across many many SPN reviews, even when I wasn't trying).

I do think there's more of a split opinion on Ruby. I've seen a lot of people saying that they like Ruby because she's been more organically integrated into the plotline of the show, since she's so tied to the major plotarc these season, whereas they felt Bela was just an add-on character. Since I actually *like* seeing the SPN universe expanded, that's not my experience, but I know for a lot of folks anything that takes the focus off Sam and Dean drives them nuts, so I at least understand that position (even if I disagree with it). I've definitely seen a lot fewer "kill off Ruby" than "kill of Bela" fics.

And as for Lilah: I'm still waiting for someone to write the crossover where she's the lawyer that gets Dean out of his deal. (Actually, I think I have read one version of that--maybe in

rivkat's crossover?--but there can really never be too many stories with Lilah, as far as I'm concerned, especially if she has sex with Dean. Hmm. Maybe Dean goes to hell but it's the part of hell ruled by Lilah, and he has a wicked hot threesome with Lilah and Wesley before Lilah lets him go back to Sam?

Or maybe she's the demon actually holding his contract? Oh, I LIKE that idea. And then Sam comes down to hell to challenge her for Dean's soul, and they have a sex-off to see who wins Dean.

Or maybe she's the demon actually holding his contract?

I swear--you always have the *best* ideas! Plus you keep your mind firmly on what's really important--the porn!!

I'm sorry, did you say something? I was too busy drooling over your icon.

I was telling slinkling I have a lot of SPN fic bookmarked on my delicious account (http://del.icio.us/norwich36), but although I have a lot of good gen stories bookmarked there, somehow the largest category--the one I *always* remember to bookmark--is the "hotlikeburning" category.

Thanks for the report!
I'm starting to think I'm just a natural fandom rebel for some reason. LOL! I happen to like S3 of SPN a LOT, and I find Bela to be a lot of fun to watch and a great addition to the show without taking anything away from the boyz.

As you know, I'm not really an introvert, so I would have stood up and seconded your comment about Bela. I can't stand feeling bullied by loudmouths who assume everyone agrees with them.

It's probably best that I only dabble at most in SPN fandom. My SV experience has left me a little battle weary. ;)

We'll be rebels together. :-) I, too, am enjoying SPN a lot--and finding that a lot of the things people are complaining about are things I love. But as I said above, in some ways what's going on now in SPN fandom reminds me of SV fandom in season 4: the show went a slightly new direction and introduced some new characters, and that disenchanted a lot of the older fans but ALSO drew in a lot of new fans.

It would be really fun to be at a con with you sometime. Do you ever go to vividcon? Maybe some year I'll finally make it out for that, since it's in Chicago.

When I was in NZ I watched a couple seasons of Bones and on the extras there was an interview with Tamara Taylor, who plays Camile, and she was briefly a love interest of Seely's. She talked (with great humour fortunately) about how the fans really hated her character, and how now that Camile and Seely are no longer an item hopefully she won't be so unpopular.

That made me twitch. The thought that these actresses *know full well* that they are hated, and generally by the *female* fans of the show, is just. God, it frustrates me! It really must be awful for them. And while I do of course support any individual's right to hate whichever character they want to hate, female or male, it does tend to be the female characters who get targeted with the most vehemence, which points to a deeper problem (and that’s not just a fandom thing, it’s a societal thing).

But anyway! I am glad you enjoyed yourself and I'm looking forward to hearing about the SV panel.

I think I'll be posting that part tonight. It's getting very long because I went to so many different panels on Saturday, plus there was a vid show.

Yeah, I agree it is wrong that actresses know they're going to be hated. Though it's nice that Tamara Taylor has a good attitude about it.

The modding thing made sense in a weird way. Because being at a con is something I'd never done before, but I've taught classes and moderated discussions loads of times (often alongside Kassrachel). So it was a way of stepping back into my comfort zone, in a setting that might otherwise make me nervous.

I'll be very curious to hear your recap of the SV panel, since I'm still digesting what I thought of it.

Oh, and the adoration is entirely mutual, btw. :-)

Oddly enough, the thing that is slowing down part 2 of the report is not the SV panel but the "Identity Politics in Fandom" panel that I found frustrating in a way I can't articulate. I wish I had taken notes so i could actually remember the parts of it that bugged me.

You are a very good mod. I think having similar experience helps, yes, but I facilitate discussions all the time in my job and still have no desire to mod panels at cons. The first year it was because I wasn't sure what the cultural expectations were, and the second year it was because there's a certain amount of craziness in fan discussions I wasn't sure I wanted to try to control. (The mods at Escapade who don't actually mod drive me nuts, though).

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Escapade report: part one

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