SPN: It's the Great Pumpkin, Sam Winchester

[norwich36]

Sam's genuine awe at meeting the angels, and his awkward apology for saying "Oh my God," was pretty much the cutest thing ever, and kind of broke my heart, because as I expected the angels were not precisely welcoming to him. And what a rude awakening for Sam, to see the harshness of divine judgment as his first confirmation of its existence. Even though we (the viewers) found out a somewhat different story by the end of the episode (and presumably Dean will pass some of that along to Sam), it was still kind of heartbreaking to see Sam's faith shaken like that. *Pets him* Especially that scene with Uriel at the end. Strangely enough, I was more offended that Uriel would pressure Sam with the memory of Jess and his mom's deaths than I was by the actual threats--I have to agree with Sam and Dean, Uriel *was* acting like a total dick. But a terrifying and powerful dick, which really seems to be a good description of a lot of biblical angels, so I generally like where they're going with that storyline.

Still, I loved how Dean tried to salvage Sam's faith for him--Babe Ruth was a dick but baseball's still a beautiful game. Oh, DEAN. Scenes like that are why I give you a pass on perving on teenage girls and eating all the Halloween candy like a giant pig and then taunting the poor astronaut kid. (You SO totally deserved to have your car egged, though).

And wow. Dean is heaven's general, or something like that? Wow. I've seen some speculation around (via musesfool and probably some other folks, too) that Dean is Michael (and/or is going to somehow end up embodying him) and that Sam is going to end up manifesting Lucifer, and I have to say this episode made those predictions a lot more credible to me. I kind of love that the angels were testing Dean, too--obviously he passed, even if he didn't stop the seal from breaking. And heck, bargaining to save cities from being destroyed goes all the way back to Abraham--and Abraham similarly succeeded and failed simultaneously (bargained God down to 10 worthy men, who couldn't be found, but he managed to get his family out. Of course later he was told to sacrifice another family member. Hmm. I wonder how explicitly they're going to draw the parallels? Because, you know, on MORE than one occasion Abraham's wife pretended to be his sister....Seems like wincest writers could do a lot with that.)

I think I will end there, because the faith questions and the angel stuff was what I really liked about the ep; I am trying to ignore the invention of Samhain as a demon and the pattern of casting black men as the Winchester's chief antagonists and having them drop racist-sounding slurs against humans, because clearly that kind of thing will drive me crazy if I let it.

No, one more thought on the title of the episode: So Linus is disillusioned every year when the Great Pumpkin doesn't come--though he lives in hope that if his pumpkin patch is sincere enough, next year will be the year. Poor Sam is as sincere as he can be, but it turns out that "Jesus on a tortilla" and all that stuff just boils down to righteous angels of God being dicks. No wonder he's going to go evil!

Comments

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

I actually stopped watching the ep when the angel almost didn't take SAm's hand. I'll watch it today, but I'm taking my denial as a Very Very Bad Sign. I'm getting waaaaay too involved in this show. I'm so weak.

[norwich36.livejournal.com]

Oh, Roxy. I had taped the episode (since I was watching Grey's Anatomy live) and I literally had to stop watching it about ten times and watch the Daily Show instead, because I was so worried about what they were going to do to Sam. :-( I am not good with angels being mean to my favorite characters! But there are moments that make this whole ep worth watching, believe me.

[allzugern.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, Dean so deserved to have his car egged!

Abraham's wife Sara *was* his sister (well half anyway), so yeah, Kripke bring on the parallels :-)

I'm not really sure how I feel about the portrayal of the Angels yet. Kripke obviously intends to go Judeo/Christian/Biblical with the view of Hell/Heaven, and so far the Angels don't really fit the biblical standard - except for them not being fluffy Hallmark versions. I don't know if that's the writers not knowing enough, or if it's one of those oh, we know they are 'so' but wouldn't it be cool if we wrote them like this...I guess I'm still in the wait-and-see-lounge.

[norwich36.livejournal.com]

Well, considering how much they fuck with pagan mythology, I guess it's only fair that they fuck with biblical mythology as well. Still, if it turns out that the God of this show actually *wants* them to sacrifice innocents for the greater good (a al Jus ad Bello and what the angels were proposing at the beginning of this ep) I will be pissed.

[rsadelle]

Oh, man. I wanted to cuddle Sam when he was having his crisis of faith (I actually said, "Oh, baby," out loud to him). I love it that Castiel has questions and doubts. It makes him so much more interesting. And also that the angels were testing Dean: Yes, please. Question, though: Wouldn't Sam, at least, know that Uriel is an archangel? I mean, I'm Jewish, and even I know he's one of the archangels.

On the subject of the writers toying with us with incest: the cheerleader and the teacher as siblings and then kissing once Samhain is in his body. Hee!

I absolutely loved Dean sitting there for the longest time staring into space daydreaming about coming back as the hot cheerleader. AHAHAHAHAHA! On an adorable Dean note, I love how he's watching the kids play. Because Dean loves kids!

Also, how much fanwank will there be about the pronunciation of Samhain?

[norwich36.livejournal.com]

I felt so bad for Sam I had to stop watching that scene and watch the Daily Show for a while before I went back to it. It just *kills* me that Sam has managed to still hold onto his faith after all that he's been through, and now it's been trampled on by a couple of assholish angels. :-(

I never know exactly *what* Sam or Dean will know on this show--but Uriel isn't actually a Biblical angel. He's in some of the apocryphal gospels, and it's possible he's in the Book of Enoch, I'd have to check to be sure. (Have we seen Sam reading the Book of Enoch on the show proper, or am I just remembering fanon from some story?)

There has already of course been a ton of complaints about the pronunciation of Samhain.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Have we seen Sam reading the Book of Enoch on the show proper, or am I just remembering fanon from some story?

We haven't seen him reading it, but he did mention Enochian magic in Hollywood Babylon iirc - I think that's where the invocation they were using in the movie came from or something.

[norwich36.livejournal.com]

I thought I remembered that Enoch had come up before. (Which makes it surprising he couldn't place Uriel--though of course there's no guarantee in the SPN-verse that Enoch is a completely reliable source.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Well, there's a lot of stuff that seems like it's stuff they, as hunters, would know, and yet they don't. I mean, I realize a lot of it is for exposition purposes, but some weeks I am left scratching my head that they ever survived this long, given the weird, large gaps in their knowledge.

[rsadelle]

Poor Sammy. Especially since he appears to be Christian, which means he's more inclined to know the New Testament version of God rather than the Old Testament vengeful sort.

I remembered this morning my other thought about this episode: Uriel says the angels have warned Sam twice. What happens when they warn him a third time?

Sam seems like the kind of guy to do a lot of extracurricular reading. He should know!

[ciaan]

They probably did not mean for me to burst out laughing when Castiel said they would destroy the town, but the image of Dean and Sam playing Lot was the funniest thing ever. Yes, the righteous man saved from destruction who offers up his daughters to be raped and then impregnates them both himself later. Let's just blame the gays instead! Yay!

Oh Kripke et al ILU. You do it to yourself.

[norwich36.livejournal.com]

Dean as Lot. Hmmm. He's not very good at offering guest-rights to angels, is he? But at least he didn't offer Sam to Samhain to be raped.

[clari-clyde.livejournal.com]

Deal as Michael? Someone will have to explain that to me. That said, Sam as a vessel for Lucifer makes sense to me so I guess anything is possible. But now that the idea is in my head, just like Sam was tested in Roanoake, this is Dean’s moment. Somehow, I think Dean’s view of “ends don’t justify means” bodes well for him as a future leader since I think that God, while he gives his orders, leaves it up to the angels to accomplish those orders as they see fit and maybe what they need is a little guidance to win the higher moral ground.

Isn’t there an interpretation that Lucifer’s fall was because he refused to revere man because man was lowly, having been made of mud and clay? That’s one theme running in my head as I watched this episode. If God is upset that the angels’ tactics have resulted in too much collateral damage, and that the angels have no respect for humans, then it would figure that God would be looking for someone, not perfect but, at least extraordinary to teach the angels just why God made humans.

[norwich36.livejournal.com]

I think the Dean-Michael connection comes out of Houses of the Holy, but I don't remember exactly how.

That's actually the Islamic interpretation of the fall: Iblis (which is the name of Satan in that tradition) refused to bow to Adam when God commanded all the angels to bow to Adam because Adam was his khalif (or representative on earth). It's in the Quran, surah 7, verses 11-18:

"And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration. He said: What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee? (Iblis) said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud. He(God) said: Then go down hence! It is not for thee to show pride here, so go forth! Lo! thou art of those degraded.
He (Iblis) said: Reprieve me till the day when they are raised (from the dead). He (God) said: Lo! thou art of those reprieved. He (Iblis)said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way. Then I shall come upon them from before them and from behind them and from their right hands and from their left hands, and Thou wilt not find most of them beholden (unto Thee). He(God) said: Go forth from hence, degraded, banished. As for such of them as follow thee, surely I will fill hell with all of you.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I thought of Abraham bargaining with God, too, and obviously, Dean's already been asked to sacrifice Sam by his father (save him or you'll have to kill him) and he couldn't do it. I still think he can't, so I'm guessing heaven's strategy is save him, or *we'll* have to kill him.

[norwich36.livejournal.com]

Yes, and considering the John *is* kind of God, for Dean (and I loved how Castiel underscored that by asking Dean if he questioned John's orders), I guess the Abrahamic sacrifice thing has already been done (or not done, as the case may be) on the show.